Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Okay, so today I'm joined by Sophia Agustina. Sophia leads the Advisory Board for North America for the CMO Council. And until very recently, she headed up Global Brand to Demand Strategy for IBM. Sophia, thanks so much for joining us today.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Thanks for having me, Declan. Looking forward to this discussion.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, obviously the podcast is called 'Let's Talk ABM,' so the focus will be ABM. But, because of the interesting, you know, change that you've had over the course of the last few weeks with your role, we may touch on a couple of points there as well.
But, let's talk about ABM, and I know the podcast obviously is ABM, 'Let's Talk ABM' – and its evolution. You've been involved in Account-based Marketing strategy since I think about 2012, which, you know, it makes you a veritable ABM veteran! There aren't many people who've been involved in it for that long. That's about 12 years I think now.
So tell me, going back in time, if you can go back in time, what did ABM look like back then, 12 years ago? What have you witnessed? I'll ask two or three questions. What have you witnessed perhaps over the course of these last 10, 12 years? And perhaps, tell us a little bit more about what you've seen in that kind of evolution?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, I can't believe it's been more than a decade. But I love ABM. I think it's the true way of engaging accounts, whether you're trying to reach a net new account and, you know, gain relationship with them, or you're trying to expand your customer footprint into that account.
So, I was at Iron Mountain in 2012, and at the time I think ABM, technology for ABM just started popping up. And I know you mentioned, Declan, that ABM has been around for almost two decades, right? But you know, I mean, talking about 'veteran,' I think you are veteran in ABM.
But yeah, in 2012, we were actually lucky at Iron Mountain; we had a lot of customer-centric technologies that we used. At the time, I think Demandbase just started, you know, they just launched their personalization and form ABM modules. And, you know, we were the first few clients to use the ABM tool for our accounts.
And at the time, we didn't even have a formal ABM program. We were still doing Enterprise Marketing, Mid-market Marketing, and then, you know, we have a couple of Vertical Marketing within healthcare and government. But, with the use of technology at the time, you know, Demandbase as well as we were using Eloqua. So, Eloqua was quite robust, too, at the time.
You know, I haven't really looked into what Eloqua has been doing lately. But, they actually had personalized URL to, you know, to develop landing pages. So we actually did a pilot; so we took about 200 of our Fortune 1000 accounts, and then we did a pilot and make it a true ABM, where we worked with Demandbase and Eloqua to identify basically, you know, the accounts. And then we did personalize. I mean, seriously, we were so lucky that we had those tools that it feels like it's, you know, feels like a lot of companies are still trying to do that, but we did that in 2012.
So we personalized the experience from the 200 accounts' perspective – based on the industry they're in. So we tested on healthcare as well as financial services within those 200 accounts, and then the rest, you know, just going into the account holistically. And then from there we saw, actually, double – the performance doubled when we personalized the experience.
So, that's how we started ABM at Iron Mountain. It started, I know technology shouldn't be the, you know, the starting point of how you, you know, start a strategy. But in this case, I think we were just amazed by what that technology Demandbase did, right?
And then we expanded it to Fortune 1000. And then, over time, you know, SiriusDecisions had their ABM strategy. So we began to create a framework with them for One-to-one, and then One-to-few and One-to-many – and then the rest is history!
You know, we've been doing, I've been doing ABM since then. I've worked with other companies, small, medium size, and then IBM. Depending on the target accounts as well as the audience that we are reaching and the solutions we are offering, you know, we use that framework, the One-to-one, One-to-few, One-to-many.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And what do you think, Sophia, you've seen in that 12 years? Obviously it's been evolving very quickly, probably particularly in the last five or six years with regards to the introduction of technologies you mentioned and the, kind of, the rise of One-to-many ABM. But what would you say are kind of the one or two things you've seen in that time that you've, kind of – and the different companies you've worked at – and obviously you're quite active in the ABM community as well. What perhaps are a couple of things that you've seen?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, so I think intent data is really, really helpful for identifying the right accounts to go after, especially if you have, you know, for companies like IBM or CA Technologies, we have, you know, many, many, many accounts that we are trying to prioritize. Understanding intent data, you know, making sure that aligning with the Sales team to identify which accounts, you know, we want to cross-sell, upsell, expand into the new business.
And then, you know, I mentioned about personalization; I think – I came from B2C, so it's very natural for me to make sure that, you know, when we market to the accounts or to the individual that we are targeting, that it's personalized to the message: the message personalized to the individual or the account, based on their pain points. But I think companies are still struggling with that.
So, I think, you know, being able to leverage personalization tools and strategies, you know, I know that a lot of marketing automation tools now have dynamic content that you could personalize based on roles, based on titles. And then now with AI especially, right? Like, you know, you could then scale that personalization to even a larger customer experiences.
So I would say those are some of the tools that in 2012, I don't think there was intent; I think we worked with Bombora in 2015, and we started using intent for, you know, a lot of our paid media efforts.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, it's interesting you mentioned that. Obviously, 2015 for many people who might be listening to this podcast, is also a long time ago as well! So it's funny how it's only, whatever, nine years ago, but it's funny how Bombora and the likes have come onto the scene. And I think we might touch on the question of AI actually a little bit later in the...
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, sure.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – In our chat. But as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, obviously you were at IBM for about four or five years until very, very recently. But let's talk, because that's an important chapter in your ABM life. Let's talk a little bit about the ABM kind of program and the world there at IBM, as well.
And what was interesting obviously with the work you were doing, I think you were kind of – the way that you explained it to me when we were chatting previously – I think you said you were 'the bridge' between Brand Marketing and 'product-led growth motions.' I think that's how you described it to me on the demand side. So tell us more about how you acted as a 'bridge.' That's quite a novel thing.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, I know, and I think now the brand to demand notion or motion is now, you know, being leveraged as well in many companies. I believe like ANA – I just spoke in their conference as well – you know, we had a one-day conference from brand to demand, connecting the dots between, you know, like you said, brand awareness to demand gen and PLG.
Yeah, so I actually lead the strategic partnership... well, I led – it's only been two weeks, so it's a little weird! I feel like I'm still working there. But you know, I led the brand-to-demand strategy. Basically, we actually used the intent technology tools to identify all of the, you know, accounts that came in from the brand-awareness initiatives that we had.
And again, IBM is, you know, a really, really big company and we have about five solution sets. So having five solution sets, which means that we have, you know, almost probably, almost 20 buying groups, right? Because like each of the solution sets have multiple audiences as well. And within those buying groups, you know, we have different roles, right? So with that, and especially as I was leading the strategic partnership and global demand, we have thousands and thousands of channels, you know, from social, paid media, content syndication, you know, the websites, and our third-party partnership, all that.
But they all, you know, typically after three to four touches from top of funnel, they all land to our IBM.com, right? So when they land into IBM.com, we actually use those intent tools to identify the companies that come in, and then we look at intent. We work very, very closely with the data analytics team, you know, from Marketing, as well as the different tools that we used. You know, we used Demandbase, we used G2, we used Bombora and a few others. And then we identify that, and we have a team that actually analyzes, you know, like what that looks like from the brand perspective, you know?
With our ABM efforts, our sponsorship efforts, like what kind of companies that came in? And then from there then, to your point, you know, how do we then bridge it to PLG and demand gen is that depending on the account size, we'll then, you know, tier them into ABM, demand gen and PLG.
So, the bigger accounts that are our customers, you know, we work with the Field Marketing and the ABM team to make sure that they continue the engagement and work with Sales. And then, you know, the mid-market or the small accounts then goes into the demand gen and then, you know, the net new accounts that goes into PLG.
So like that's how we are actually bridging the gap between the brand awareness into demand, and from there then, you know, you do the usual nurture stream, and yeah, and Account-based Marketing, working with Sales and Field Marketing. It's a big operation. It's a really big operation!
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I wouldn't expect anything else from IBM to be honest, from the Big Blue. They still call it – the 'Big Blue' – don't they?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – The Big Blue.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Yeah, I wouldn't expect anything else.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – We don't hear that as often now.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, that's because I'm obviously showing my age, clearly – from when I was looking for jobs back in the 1990s! Anyway, let's just to touch on a couple of things there actually about, you know, the brands that you mentioned before and some of the brand initiatives.
Obviously, when you see IBM – and I think there's been a massive shift in how IBM goes to market and how the level of brands is much more, kind of like, than before, the Big Blue that we would associate before: The kind of huge servers and that kind of very kind of like, you know, 'guys in white shirts' kind of approach really, you know, from North America.
But I was just thinking about some of the events that you do there, you know, what kind of big events like IBM Think. You also mentioned to me before that I think you're involved in sponsoring or, you know, participating in the Grammys in the United States, the US Open tennis, for example? Why would IBM be involved in those kind of events? And how do you take those events and take, you know, and justify, you know, the investment and the time? How do you link that together?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, it's true. Actually until recently, a couple years ago, those events, you know, the Grammys or the US Open, the Masters – the company leveraged that in partnership for brand awareness. And you know, obviously at the time, too, you know, IBM and those sponsorship, the companies that they sponsor, it's just their partnership has been going on for about 30 years.
So, you know, over time it has evolved. But one of the things that we did differently this past couple years is that we leveraged the brand-building experiences from those major moments, you know – the US Open thing and the Grammys – to get closer to the customer. So, by knowing, you know, what their activities are digitally as well as, you know, our relationship with them by account with the sellers and the account relationship, we are able to deliver a very tailored and personalized approach through these events.
And so, you know, we invite, you know, a few hundred of our accounts to these big events. We host them, you know, very tailored experiences within the suite at the US Open, for example. And then it's almost like a partnership with these accounts, Declan. So I mean, it is a partnership with these accounts. So like we also engage with them to understand what their needs are within the accounts because those are, you know, the top 1,500 accounts that we engage with.
And that actually helps us too to improve our solutions as well as we go to market. And then from there, we also use this sponsorship and partnership to engage with these accounts digitally. You know, we have virtual engagement…
Actually, this week is Think Week. And so I'm in Boston and most of my colleagues, you know, are in the Boston Convention Center. So as an example for Think, we invited about 4,000, you know, clients to the event, but then we also have an on-demand experience. If you go to IBM.com/events/think you can see the on demand. I think it's still going on until tomorrow, so yeah. So we try to, you know, get closer to each of the customer and accounts, especially around our top 1,500 accounts that we partner with.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And I think, I'm not sure whether I was at a HubSpot event in Boston a few years ago, I'm not sure whether that was the same location.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yes, it is.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – It was certainly a very big, was it the same location? It was a huge event in a hall and everything, yeah.
So just to touch on that then really. You mentioned something there, 'cause you mentioned at the beginning of the conversation as well this whole thing around ABM and personalization, and you also mentioned there personalized experience.
And I think what's probably interesting about that, a lot of people talk about personalization through dynamic content, through technology, but I would argue that what you're doing there is much more, without wanting to say 'white glove,' but definitely a lot more human personalization. Would that be fair to say?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – I would say 50/50. It used to be probably 90% human and then 10% digital, but since I, you know, helped them to kind of create a digital experience and using personalization strategy, it's now about probably 60/40% – 60% human and 40% digital.
And I think it's really, really key, right? Because we are still engaging with the person, right? We are still engaging with a human. I think now also a lot of companies are trying to go into market with people first.
I was just with, you know, Mark and a couple others discussing about people-first strategy, 'cause like, you know, getting closer to your customer, it is about, you know, helping the account, but ultimately how do you even help, you know, the individual that you're trying to solve their pain points? You know, make them look good, do their job better, you know, help them.
You know, that partnership that I mentioned, Declan, when we worked with the IBM accounts, is truly understanding what their pain points are, and working together through consulting to help them elevate the experience. Actually yesterday... see, I'm still passionate about IBM!
I mean, I was just, I feel like I'm like, you know, their ambassador still. But you know, like even yesterday, I think they interviewed Citigroup and they talk about how, you know, like IBM and Citigroup actually innovate together, basically. As you know, these companies are, you know, older companies, right? So they have like mainframes and older systems. I can talk all day about this, but it's all about the customer, it's true. It's that personalization strategy.
But then imagine if, you know, let's say the C-suite or you know, are invited to the event and then, you know, people from Citigroup then went digitally and see the same experience, right? Like, you know, with the on demand, basically.
So typically when I do these Grammys and US Open, we personalize the landing page to greet them, with accounts we actually personalize, like you say, messaging based on their roles. You know, we have five different solutions sets like I mentioned. So we, you know, personalized by security and all that, so... But it's not all IBM; I did that too previously for other companies. And, no, I can go on on this!
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – No, well, I think it's also probably testament to, you know, there are certain companies with certain cultures, and I think IBM is clearly one of them, that once you've been an IBMer, you're always an IBMer, right?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – IBMer.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And I think that...
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – But you know, you could be an IBMer and an ABMer. Once you've been, once you've been an ABMer at IBM, then obviously then that's never going to, that's never going to leave you.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Right. Right.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And look, I think that's important because these companies leave a big mark on your life, right? Because of the work that you do and the quality of the work that you do as well, which I think is really important.
Let's just, I want to ask you a question about intent, because you mentioned it at the beginning of the show, and you mentioned that as one of the kind of, the biggest kind of innovations that you've seen in ABM over the course of the last 12 years.
But, can you help the audience understand, 'cause a lot of people, you know, for some people there's been a lot of kind of, how would I describe it? Probably negativity around it, probably, in terms of, "Oh, intent! You just need to get a list! And then you just need to contact these companies, and these companies are buying, and then you just, that's easy!"
And I remember speaking to Danny Nail, who's over at Salesforce – I think he heads up the ABM Center of Excellence at Salesforce. And he was saying you've got to, there's a huge difference between intent and interest, and the fact that somebody is interested in a subject doesn't mean that they are exhibiting any intent, which obviously intent goes – I think you were talking before about propensity to buy.
So, could you share with the audience just a little bit about the way that you've used intent?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, and Danny's right on that, 'cause, you know, typically I think a lot of people also used 'intent' and 'interest' interchangeably. However, you know, again, I grew up with Eloqua, so you know, Eloqua, they launched the book, "Digital Body Language," where it's all about the digital experience, right? At the time it was the first-party data, I think, right?
So that's where the interest comes in, because you know, when accounts are interested in your domain, which means that they're almost like in the consideration stage, right? Because like they are interested to go into your domain, and then depending on the type of content that they consume, then you also will know where they are in the buying journey.
However, I think intent, I think it, you know, spans a lot more than just a person's behavior, right? So it actually encompasses the company intent, and also, depending on the partner or vendors that you are partnering with, it could be content consumption externally, it could be keywords, it could be, you know, predictive models that they use.
So I think all of that, if there's a company that can integrate all of that intent externally, keywords, consumption of content, you know, and then predictive model, how to generate and accelerate demand, plus the first-party data that you have, I think that is a true digital experience journey or behavior that you want to get.
But I think that would cost a lot of money, right? Like IBM again was lucky that we have so many different, we had so many different intent tools. As well as Iron Mountain, we had also a couple of intent tools. So I would always marry whatever intent you have with the digital behavior.
But, ultimately it is really, really important, especially if you're going to market as an account experience or account base, is to work with your sellers, and you know, and making sure that their account plans, you know, you infuse the intelligence to them, but as well as listen to what they're looking and what their quota is, you know, and how you can help them with that account. So I would say it's, you know, it takes three to tango! Usually it takes two, but for ABM, it takes three to tango! So Sales...
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I think that'll be on one of the social promotions that we do for this episode. We'll definitely have, we'll definitely have that, or we might even make a T-shirt or something.
So, I mean, I just was making some notes there and I think one of the things that you said, which I really loved was, and I think that's probably what separates ABM from other Marketing disciplines is you were saying previously about ABM really helps the individual.
And you said, you know, you're not just looking at the account, you're actually talking to and thinking about the individual. What are their challenges, what are their job challenges, you know, a little bit kind of, what keeps them awake at night? And I think that's, for me, going back to the point around personalization, that's probably why it's so keen, key rather, to personalize to the account and personalize to the individual, particularly the One-to-one level, right?
Because you're talking, you know, going back to your point around tango, you're going back to your point about, you know, you've got to know their steps and know how they, yeah. So, is there anything you could share with us on that in terms of that degree of getting to know the individual? Is there any anecdote you could share? Anything you think about in your memory banks around that area?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, I think it's been around for many, many decades, Declan, it's just that I think that technology is trying to keep up with it now. And also, you know, the talent and people using technology. So, you know, Persona Marketing, right? I mean, it's been around 20-plus years, I would say, even more.
You know, the Product Marketing team would go to Forrester and understand the persona, you know, what's the interest? I actually used to work for Lycos – I'm also dating myself. But that was 2003, and we did a Persona Marketing and we, you know, tried to understand in addition to what they consume online, what do they do? Do they travel? Do they shop? How many times do they shop? Frequency and all that.
So, I think knowing that person's interests, you know, like what Danny mentioned, not only within what they, you know, consume for their business for their jobs, but also like knowing who they really are is really the key.
I'm actually working with a partner as part of the CMO Council engagement that I'm with now. They actually have psychographic data as well as interest data based on the person, not only the keywords and for the jobs, but also on the person. Do they shop? Do they like music? Do they... ?
So that way you could actually tailor your communications, you know, they even have like the communication style that that person, you know, engage with. You could personalize that, you know, communication based on who they are, right? Like, you know, you work eight hours, but other than that, you know, you are, you know, you are Declan, you love, I see you like the beaches. You love your kids. You know, you do like a white shirt, I see, you know, without the tie for Big Blue! But, so if let's say your white is your favorite color, if we have that information about you and we don't send you red or orange, you know, you are more likely to respond.
So like, in addition to what we talked about – it takes three to tango for ABM – so that's intent, interests in the company level and working with Sales. It'll be also great if we understand you as the person.
And that's why I'm working with this partner, and I think it's really, really great, you know, to create this, we call it 'the accelerated demand.' So I guess maybe it takes four to tango! But three to tango is better, I think, for now.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, you need to make sure you let me know what number it is before I get the T-shirts made!
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Three!
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Three!
So I think just a couple more questions on your time at IBM. What, now you've obviously worked for different companies in doing Account-based Marketing. You're also very active in the Account-based Marketing community, and you know, you're highly respected in the ABM community.
But what would you say makes ABM... this is quite hard to say – but what do you think makes ABM at IBM different to perhaps other experiences that you've seen out there?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – I would say, I think I touched about on it a little bit, but I would say the vast, the fact that IBM is such a huge company and they had so, you know, they had 40 business units when I first joined IBM, which means that they have hundreds and hundreds of products, and the target audience actually overlap between these products. But then, you know, we were able to create five campaigns out of it now. I would say that's the only difference with that.
Then it's harder to actually do a true ABM approach on the account. And the way that we then activate ABM at IBM is through four different scenarios. So the major moments and strategic partnership that I led, and then we do paid media, and then we do Outbound Marketing. And then you'll also work with Field Marketing.
And each of these teams then, you know, basically go to market into these accounts within their teams. But then, you know, it's sort of integrated into the solution sets, basically. So I would say that's the challenge is that it is very, very, very difficult to do a holistic ABM approach at IBM.
But, I would say ABM, if done correctly, and you know, the most important is really, really engaging the customer and the individual with the right message, right content, right offer to, you know, address their pain points and meet their needs. Throughout my career, you will increase your average deal size typically by two to three X. It will, you know, help you to improve the customer experience, the funnel demand. Also, I was able to actually improve by up to eight X, but depending on the scope.
So I think you had a really, really good strategy too. I think one of your posts you mentioned about "ABM is not just about marketing," but it's like 'ABM motion,' 'ABM measurements,' you know, 'ABM... ' – all the M can be interchangeable. It's true, like I think people think that ABM is just marketing, but it's not, it's actually a company go-to-market strategy.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, it's good to know that somebody sees my posts, Sophia!
Okay, well, just a couple of questions really that just spring to mind from what you just said. What would you, because you talked, you talked a lot about, you know, demand. You talked a lot about brand. And I know that, I think I mentioned to you when we were chatting before that one of the first guests I had on the show, way back in 2000, I think, was Sangram Vajre, who I think you know. And he said to me at the time – and it's always stuck in my mind, actually – he said to me, "Brand drives demand."
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yes.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And I've kind of seen that myself with the work that I do at the Agency over the course of the last three or four years. A lot of the brand work that I do is certainly driving demand within the agency.
But can you share with me a little bit about your thinking there about how do you connect the dots between brand and demand? Because that's clearly something that you've been doing there at IBM.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, I agree. Sangram is, you know, always has a great, you know, mindset on ABM, "flip the funnel" and all that. But it's true, brand drives demand, because I think at the end of the day, it's a holistic approach, like how you go to market from the top of funnel into when you close the deal and even after, right?
The experience after you engage and close the deal, you help them buy your solutions. It's an integrated approach. So, I'm a true believer of having an integrated marketing approach from top to funnel until, you know, the account relationship with them.
And I think, and I believe that the way that you engage your customer is your brand. Like how many times have we, you know, experienced a bad customer experience with a call center, or you know, in store? And then they used to be your favorite brand, and then after that you're like, "Oh my god!" You know, "What just happened there? I spend money with them and look what happened!" Or even like, you know, your family has the brand or what have you.
So, and brand, I think we overuse the word brand to think that it's only top of funnel. Every day you see brand. I mean, Apple, I think as an example, Apple, right? Like there's such a, I mean, there's no differentiation between when you watch an Apple advertising, if it's a brand campaign or if it's a demand campaign, right? Because, like, all this is like what will benefit the user? Like why this phone or this Apple Watch? Why you should get them? Because like it will benefit, you know, the audience.
So I think brand drives demand is right, but also I think at the end of the day, it is how do you engage your customer? How do you engage your market? What is it that you're trying to go to market to help solve the customer needs? And then, you know, hit that jackpot – gain that relationship with that customer.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, hopefully, yeah. And I think, yeah, it's funny, I remember there was a famous quote about Coca-Cola and I think they're one of the biggest advertising spenders in the world. And I think somebody once asked their CMO many, many years ago, "Why are you spending so much money on billboard ads and all this kind of thing?" And you know, and he goes, "Well, the day that we stop spending money on marketing will be the day that we're number two."
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And I think if you stay, you know, if your adverts are constantly you're front-of-mind in everyone, then those advert you're basically, you know, encouraging people to experience your brand and therefore to buy your brand, yeah.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Also, I think the reason why I feel like, you know, there's that differentiation between brand to demand is also the outcomes, right? I think marketers need to really, really be clear about the outcomes of their efforts.
So, you know, as we all know, Marketing tend to be the, you know, the first one to be cut in budget, because like they think certain, you know, initiative is not driving demand. But again, it depends on the goal of each of your initiative and what it is that you're looking to accomplish. And then ultimately how would that, you know, connecting that dots of all the different channels that you have to drive into the pipeline and revenue. And I think that, you know, that's my role actually at IBM, connecting those dots, and then, you know, identifying what will be the KPIs for each of the channels, like how would that drive into the pipeline goal as well as the conversion to work with Sales to close.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Let's talk about something which I know is very close to your heart, which is the Nine Cs Framework that you were explaining to me before when we were chatting. Can you share with the audience what the Nine Cs Framework is a little bit and how it helps ABM or go-to-market?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Yeah, so I have a co-creator that, you know, creates this Nine Cs Framework. We actually met at a leadership program a couple years ago. But we've had about 20 years of experience in our marketing journey.
And you know, as we were chatting, time and time again, you know, what we found is that the customer is, you know, number, is key, right? They used to say customer is king. I know we don't hear that anymore as, you know, we don't hear Big Blue anymore. But still customer is the center of everything that you do, right?
So by knowing, you know, your customer, then you'll be able to know, you know, what campaigns you're going to run, and what content you're going to create. So the Nine Cs Framework is actually a framework to get closer to your customer.
So the customer is in the middle of all the other different go-to-market strategy. And so there's nine different Cs. The first one is the customer, understand your audience, understanding your customer, what is it that you're trying to help them with?
And then, you know, we look at company-centricity, whether they are customer-centric, how they treat their employees, how they engage their customer, how they respond to their customer requests, and it goes into competitors, contexts. Who are your collaborators? It could be your tech partners, it could also be the SMEs that, you know, your influencers.
So each of that from the go-to-market strategy, we identify about nine different criteria for each of the Cs that would make – it's almost like a barometer to see how this go-to-market, you know, motion can, is getting you closer to the customer. And then once you know that for, you know, market landscape company, competitors, context. Context could also be, you know, where are you marketing? Are you marketing in Spain? Are you marketing in, you know, in Asia? So, like the way that you market differentiate based on the context.
Once you know all that, then you'll be able to craft a better, you know, way to engage your customer through your distribution channel, so channel is another C. And then what content would you, you know, distribute through those channel. And content doesn't necessarily mean it's just, you know, a podcast or whitepaper, but it's really like what makes the customer content as well. Like, you know, it could be the offer, it could be, you know, the relationship and all that, so like what content. And then from there then you can create a more relevant campaigns that would help to improve conversion.
So there are nine Cs altogether. It's customer, company, competitors, contacts, collaborators, channels, content, campaign and conversion.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And conversion, I'm just making my notes here.
What we'll do, I think you shared with me a model before. We'll probably share that with the podcast if you're happy with that, so that people can actually see a little bit more about what you're doing or some more information about that.
Some rapid-fire questions, Sophia, just to finish off. Rapid-fire questions I ask every guest, and so you've got to give me your quickest, you know, answer. But, so you've been, as I mentioned at the top of the show, you've been involved in ABM for a long time. You're a veteran, okay? You've got all the medals, and you've probably got all the war wounds as well. What has been your greatest ABM learning?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – I would say integrating alignment between Marketing and Sales. That continues to evolve, year over year.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Yeah, I think I'd agree. What is your, what is the hardest part rather of ABM?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – I think getting alignment across the organization, getting buy-in from, you know, executives, and then especially, I mean now it's easier, but back in the day, you know, it's something that you have to continue to get buy-in from the company.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – The greatest misconception about ABM?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – I think I mentioned earlier that it is a marketing job; it's everybody's job.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – I like that. That's a very short. I love that, it's very short, very sweet. Love that! And the last question, we're recording this on a Wednesday, but imagine we fast-forward in time and it's a Friday afternoon, and you've had a really tough week, and you're going to close down your laptop and you're going to have a Diet Coke or a glass of wine or whatever you like...
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Or a Bubly?
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – To have just to, or a Bubly, which is a new beverage to me. You get a phone call from an old, old friend who says, "Hey Sophia, I'm looking to launch an ABM program and I've been asked to come in on Monday and present to the CEO." What's that one piece of advice you would give them to make sure they include in that presentation on that Monday morning?
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Hmm, what not to, I would say, what's the outcome of this ABM strategy, right? Like at the end of the day, the CEO wants to know what will it deliver to the company? What's the value to the company?
So there's many, many things that would drive to the outcome, but, you know, communicate what will ABM do for the company and their customers?
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – I love that. The outcome based is a great one. Obviously CEOs need to have very, very clear messaging that aligns with what they're trying to do as well, so that's a great piece of advice to finish off with.
Sophia, thanks so much for sharing your ABM journey with us today, your long ABM journey, and I wish you every success with your new venture, and thank you very much.
Sophia Agustina (CMO Council) – Thank you, Declan.