Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Okay, well, so today I'm joined by Lindsay Baggett, who's the Senior ABM manager at Tanium. Lindsay, thanks so much for joining us today.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Yeah, thanks for having me.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I mean, we've been chasing each other back and forth. We had a kind of an early conversation a while ago, and I think you hadn't been an awful long time in the job there at Tanium, and obviously, you know, life and work, and everything has meant that we've taken a little bit longer to record this session. So it'll be interesting to see how things have moved on in that time since we last spoke.
But when we were speaking, one thing that you said to me, which I absolutely loved, which is why I want to kind of, you know, start with this question. You said to me there's a huge difference between Account-based Marketing and RAM. So for the audience, what do you mean by RAM? And tell me what that difference is.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Yeah, so RAM stands for Random Acts of Marketing.
And I think a lot of times when a company or an individual's, you know, just starting their journey in ABM, that the idea, like the romanticized idea of ABM, a lot of times like the flash and bang of really cool campaigns, whether it's direct mail or, you know, advertising, or things like that, and their random acts of marketing, they don't fit into a well-thought-out, full strategy, and, you know, full-funnel strategy for that matter, which I think is like true ABM, is like: "How do we stay close to these accounts, stay married to these accounts? We ride or die with these accounts, right?" This is a long-term commitment, and every step of the way needs to be thought out, and it needs to be, you know, whether it's programmatic, strategic, and everything should be orchestrated, and it's not just random acts of marketing.
And I think when ABM becomes random acts of marketing, it's really just kind of like glorified lead generation, or glorified demand generation, versus true Account-based Marketing.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I think that's very helpful, and I think that I love that expression: 'We ride or die with these accounts!' I could see that going on T-shirts at the next convention, ABM convention, so I love that.
So just we mentioned about you're Senior ABM manager at Tanium. Just for the audience, because it's not necessarily a brand that everyone will know – tell us, what is Tanium? Who are you? What do you do? And you kind of, you know, imagine you're explaining to my five-year-old. How would you explain to him what you do?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Sure, so Tanium is a converged endpoint management platform, and it's really foundational software for any IT operations, or cybersecurity team, in any size enterprise, but we certainly have high penetration in like Fortune 500, large enterprise companies. And what Tanium does is allows IT operations or security, to be able to see everything, and do anything in their entire IT estate.
So it keeps companies protected, and it allows IT operation practitioners and cybersecurity practitioners to be able to see into all of the endpoints of an enterprise, and also be able to do anything within those endpoints to make sure that they're compliant, that they're up to date, that they're not wasting money on unused licenses.
And, you know, it's just a very powerful foundational software that, you know, allows you to do a lot of things that a lot of companies probably still think is not possible to solve for, and so Tanium does that.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I love that last bit there, that kind of a lot of companies aren't aware that they can solve some of these problems, and you are there to solve them for them. And obviously, hence, you know, why Account-based Marketing is so important to get that message out there, right? But I think if I'm right in saying you've been at Tanium for coming up to two years now, I think...
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Yeah, pretty close.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – ... is the timeline. Let's just talk a little bit about the kind of last 24 months or so, 'cause obviously you're a senior ABM practitioner, you've been working for a number of other, you know, technology companies before you joined Tanium. You were brought into Tanium, I believe, to head up the kind of the ABM strategy there, and to kind of give direction to that strategy.
So, let's talk a little bit about that. I think the first thing I'd like to ask you, I've got kind of a few questions in my head about this, but the first one is: I think you were kind of granted relatively – which is great for anybody – relatively free rein to build that ABM strategy. What did you come across when you joined the company? What were you thinking? And what did you kind of decide to do? If you could perhaps kind of share that with us?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Yeah, so I was brought in to build an ABM program from the ground up, you know, completely from scratch. It didn't exist before. And so I sit under the demand generation team, and I'm.. and so what, my goal, I would say, in the first month was to really do a very comprehensive listening tour; talking to the marketing team to see what already exists today, you know, or at that time, like when I started, what programs are already in place, how do we market to our audience, you know, to our prospects and to our customers, what resonates, what's working, what's not working.
But then I spent most of my time speaking with Sales leadership, you know, at the time our SVP of North America Sales, the AVPs, the RVPs, and also the account executives to really understand, you know: How do they sell? And what do they need ABM to solve for? So, you know, we can kind of go in thinking like, 'Oh! We're just going to create a program that's going to market it in closed-prospect accounts.' But that might not be what the company as a whole needs.
And so how I, what I was searching for is, ultimately, how does Tanium, as a company, grow? And how does Sales win? And how can I help them win? And where do they need me to help them win? Like where can I make the most impact, and where am I most needed? And so from that listening tour, Tanium grows by obviously net-new logos, especially in the large enterprise space, you know, what we call majors or strategic accounts, and then also by customer expansion, which isn't uncommon, but, and that was where they needed ABM to do the most work and to have the most impact.
You know, there's other areas of ABM that it could have gone down where it might be preventing churn, or, you know, changing hearts and minds. And so while there is some aspect of that for Tanium, that wasn't the most pressing area of need. And so I wanted to make sure that the ABM strategy aligned to how Tanium grows and what Tanium needed most.
And the other thing, as well, is how does that, how can I leverage the existing marketing strategy, structure, programs, teams, so that I wasn't duplicating efforts, stepping on any toes, but really making sure that everything that I was doing is a value add.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – I mean, I've just made so many notes – there's so many things you said here that I haven't heard before, which is – I've absolutely loved it – and I think just in terms of the way you called it 'a listening tour' as you started your journey there, and the way to kind of build that kind of like consensus and support, you know, what does Tanium need ABM to solve for? How does Tanium grow? How does Sales win? How can I help them win?
I think those kind of questions are very simple questions, but they're probably not questions, they're probably not questions that get asked necessarily in a formal process. And I think, you know, anybody listening to this episode should take note, really, because I think that's definitely a very, very smart way to go about things.
One of the things you also tell me, though, as well, I think, when we were speaking before, and I think it's probably linked to this listening tool, but I think you were talking about how it was very important to define what ABM meant for the company, right? In terms of what does Account-based Marketing mean?
You know, there's lots of misconceptions, lots of myths, everyone's got a different opinion about what ABM is, or what ABM isn't. Did you come up with a definition together, like a consensus on what it meant as part of this conversation?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Um, I wouldn't say together. What I did, like in the listening tour, you know, as I was asking these questions, and then, of course, I'm also going to ask like, well, what exactly is ABM? Like what does it stand for? What does it mean? There was a lot of questions, especially from Sales.
And so I wanted to be very clear from the very beginning, before even launching a program and defining the program, I think it was like even before saying like, 'This is what ABM is, or will be here,' it was like, 'I want to be very clear on what ABM is not, and will not be here.' And just to be very clear, to set expectations. I feel like expectations can be like the fruit of all frustration, right?
So I was very clear to say like what ABM is not. And so there's a slide that I created, and I can't remember all of the, you know, it was like two columns, and it was like all the analogies – like this is what it isn't, and this is what it is. And so one of it's like, you know, it's not about MQLs, it's not, you know, a light switch; it's not something that we turn on and off, and, you know, can do so very quickly. It's not, you know, like flash and bang; It's a very slow burn. It's not about a touchdown, it's first downs, which for your audience, – this is American football terms! – I don't know what the equivalent would be maybe in your football, American soccer, but for American football, you know, the celebration and everything is very much around the touchdowns, and those are like the flash-bang moments.
But you know, just this is the analogy I come back to time and time again is, if we think about an account, and an account executive and like what they need to accomplish throughout the entire buyer journey before getting a closed one, and then also moving on to expansion, is like there are probably hundreds if not thousands of moments. And in American football it would be like plays, like how do you win a game? It's play, after play, after play. And the goal isn't a touchdown, it's really just like, it's to get the first down.
And so you have a team of people, especially now with like these large deals, it's very much about team selling, and ABM is one member of that team. And so what are all of the first downs? How can ABM help be, you know, an offensive or defensive coach, and help you kind of orchestrate those plays, or define those plays? And when does ABM actually need to be part, you know, of those plays? So, setting those expectations. I am trying to think of all the other analogies I've used, but when it came to defining ABM for the team in the early days, I feel like I focused a lot on what it wasn't, because I felt like a lot of preconceived notions of ABM were not accurate.
And so I felt like there was some unlearning to do, and then really being able to define like ABM. And I would say that the definition that I kind of settled on was, you know, was ABM is a service. And so I kind of defined the program as ABM as a service. And, I would almost call it... sometimes I have an issue with my own title, or is Account-based Marketing, look, that's so inaccurate! It's not 'Account-based Sales,' it's not 'Account-based Marketing' – it's almost like 'Account-based Service' is really how I think about what I provide to Tanium and to the Sales organization.
And so like, what does that mean? It means that ABM is here. Yes, there's a framework and there's a strategy, but it's really about keeping the account at the center, the customer, the prospect, at the center, and making it as easy for them to learn about Tanium and what Tanium can do for them. And you know, why do they need to change? Why now? And why Tanium?
And so like how do we educate our accounts as easily as possible in the way that they need it, and at the moment they need it, and to progress deals. And so all of those moments – it's very tactical, and it's all very personal. And so every moment, every play, every tactic is keeping the account at the center. So that's why it's not, you know, Marketing, it's not always Sales. It's a lot of enablement, but it's really just a service.
Like what does that account need in this moment? And it's going to be so unique. You know, some of the programs may be similar, but exactly what we do in that, with that program for that account is very, very unique. So I don't know if I landed my plane there, but I think like 'Account-based service' I think is almost a more accurate depiction of what Account-based Marketing really provides an organization.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – So I'm just trying to think how to pronounce that. So is that 'ABM-ASS'? I'm trying to think how you'd pull that together, but...
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – ABS.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Or A-B-MASS? Or ABMASS? Or something like that.
But yeah, I mean it's so refreshing hearing this from you, actually, because I think yeah, 'ABM as a Service,' 'cause you are, yeah, it is a service into the organization, as you said, and it's not just marketing, it's not just sales, etc.
And thank you for helping with the American football terms and touchdowns and all that. I mean, most people have seen plenty of American films over the years. You'd be surprised to hear that American football is actually quite popular even outside of the United States.
But it's just really interesting what you were just saying there in terms of the plays. So as you said, you know, an American football game is made up of a number of plays that end up in the, and it's very kind of, as you said, very kind of strategy based, and it's like very kind of orchestrated. So I think it's really interesting what you said there.
But another thing, when we were chatting before, I think you said to me, which kind of, you know, kind of stuck in my mind. But you said to me that it's all about progress rather than perfection, I think you said. So how, looking now almost two years now since you've been running ABM there, is that still the case? Progress rather than perfection?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Oh yes, absolutely. I feel like it's a mantra for everything. Especially for me, because I'm a big-picture person, and so I like to have these things mapped out in my head, and I have like these very ideal, like these very strong and big ideals, and so my aspiration is perfection, but I have to kind of rein that tendency in. Especially with something like Account-based Marketing where it's so complex, truly, right?
You know, we have a CMO for an entire organization to run marketing, as you're familiar. And I think, you know, Account-based Marketing is like you're a CMO for that account, and, you know, a CMO should have a very strong sense of responsibility to revenue for that account.
And so with that – I hate to say 'complex' because I know it has such a negative connotation – but with the wide variety of tactics, and programs, and campaigns that you'll run for an account, it's very difficult, I think, to get account executives that are new to Account-based Marketing to really be able to wrap their heads around it.
And so, you know, progress not perfection comes in not just like your programming and your strategy, but also in how you're communicating that to your Sales team and also driving the adoption of your programming with each of those account executives. We call them DSAs here at Tanium. And so I think in every aspect of Account-based Marketing is like: Okay, what are the stepping stones to that perfection? And not waiting to be perfect before launching and trying to execute. And then how do you communicate those stepping stones, and drive the adoption of each of those stepping stones with Sales?
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Yeah, I think you've made some very valid points there around not being too obsessed about getting everything 100% right. And it recalls the conversation I had with Rhiannon Blackwell at PricewaterhouseCoopers, PWC, that she said, you know, you've got to start with your best hypothesis. You've got to start with your best plan, but you just don't know what's going to happen.
So you've got to be able to be, you know, agile, and therefore if you do that perfection at the beginning, the perfection probably won't be good enough, because it'll end up, the circumstances will change. And those circumstances will require you to change, and therefore it's almost better to launch, as you said, and then to see how the market, how the accounts respond. And then you can then, you know, progress, make that progress, as you said.
But just a question for you, Lindsay, with regards to the work you're doing there, specifically the ABM program. Could you, to help the audience, give them a kind of brief, you know, a picture, could you paint a picture of the ABM that you're doing there, the program? Are you doing One-to-one, One-to-many, One-to-few? Are you doing a blend? Just kind of paint a little picture if you could.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Sure, so definitely a blend of One-to-many, One-to-few and One-to-one. And I think of, to kind of create a visuals, the ABM program is kind of like a pyramid. So we have like our foundational layers, our One-to-many. And you know, going back to listening towards, you know, how are we going to segment, select our ABM target accounts? Like what are we going to say? How do we say something unique and relevant to our segment of accounts?
And so we chose a vertical-centric approach for our One-to-many. So we've chosen two verticals for our strategic accounts specifically. And so the foundational layer is vertical-centric, One-to-many messaging, you know: 'What is the unique value of Tanium for financial services?' as one vertical, and like 'What is the unique value, you know, and benefit for Tanium with our high-tech or big-tech vertical?'
And then as we know more, learn more, get more insights, or as accounts progress from there, whether it's, you know, in our like prospecting, you know, stage one, stage two, opportunities start to open, and we learn more, we gather more intel, then we move into One-to-few, more sophisticated, or more personalized.
As we learn more, we try to be more relevant, we try to use that, and evolve the messaging that we're serving those accounts. And then for specific accounts where we have line of sight to closing. Or, you know, just a very strong value proposition, and what we call like middle-of-funnel, bottom-of-funnel accounts, then we might move into, depending on the size of the deal and our line of sight, into a closed one, moving into One-to-one, to really... and the focus of One-to-one is to de-risk deals, and also to give our best shot at a closed one, expanding opportunity size as much as possible, and trying to accelerate pipeline to have it close. Not, you know, on time, but trying to shorten sales cycles as well.
So it's kind of like a very high-level overview, but, so like the foundational layers, vertical-centric, One-to-many, and then as we learn more about accounts then our One-to-few and our One-to-one is more insight and intel based. So we'll kind of evolve from there.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And just out of curiosity then, how do you see that evolving now, let's say looking forward – next 12 months – do you think that's going to stay the same? Or do you think, 'Do you know what? With our One-to-few and One-to-one, it's working so well, we're going to push a bit more that way'? How do you see things going?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – So I think that the structure of the pyramid will stay the same, and you know, we talked about how I view ABM, as like 'ABM as a service.' And so like what does that mean? Like I have a full menu of programs and tactics that we can deploy for our top-of-funnel accounts, as well as middle-of-funnel accounts, and bottom-of-funnel accounts. And, you know, those plays are things that we can use to get the next first down, right?
So when I look at the next, you know, 12 months ahead, my focus, you know, I would say we're about a year and a half in to our full launch of the ABM program here at Tanium. And so when I look forward, we have the foundational layers working, running, you know – content strategy, how we're educating. And so now my focus for the next 12 months is really driving adoption of the very tactical plays of ABM as a service, or our menu of plays, to accelerate and deal. So like more of the One-to-one tactics, I should say, is like what I'm really trying to focus on and drive.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Another thing that you said to me when we were chatting previously was you talked about the strength, I think it was, of the subject matter experts there at Tanium.
Now, a lot of the kind of conversations I have with ABMers around how they go to market, and particularly how they talk to their customers and their kind of key prospects is the use of SMEs, subject matter experts; kind of the peer-to-peer approach. Could you share how do you leverage your subject matter experts there in terms of your ABM program?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Sure, so I use them for all kinds of things. In the early days, it was really to help shape our narrative, our value proposition and our messaging strategy for the verticals. So we have different subject matter experts that have, you know, vertical expertise as well as, you know, persona like they're former CISOs, former CIOs, Director of ITs, and so using them for content to really help inform us on how do we create valuable educational content, thought-leadership content?
And then I also use them in like our full-funnel, you know, menu of plays. So, I bring them in for executive sponsorship, opportunities for peer-to-peer, you know, one-to-one peer-to-peer educational opportunities, you know, ways to provide value to prospects or customers really to accomplish a lot of different things. A couple of examples might be to really help, you know, the CIO or the CISO of a prospect account really understand the business value of Tanium, versus like the practical, technical value of Tanium.
It's like our subject matter experts are former CIOs, CISOs, and so it's for them to come in and have that peer-to-peer conversation, and really help make sure that the elevated business value of Tanium is landing with our prospect CIOs and CISOs. And as well as like, whether that's a one-off, right, a one-to-one kind of peer-to-peer conversation, or if it's bringing them in for a formal partnership, you know, what I call executive sponsorship program.
So we're committing these subject matter experts to the account over the long term, and we try to bring them in in the middle-of-funnel opportunity stages, and through to close one and then to expansion. So we're making sure that our subject matter experts are aligned to the success of an account. And when I say success of account, the actual account teams, IT operations, cybersecurity – those teams that are buying Tanium, helping them be aligned, and making sure that they're successful.
So those are a couple of ways that we use them. But then I would say also one of the most valuable ways that I personally use them is the feedback loop. So as they're having these conversations, what's landing? What is really, you know, impactful to our audience, to our prospects? And how are they talking about things? How are things evolving? Are the concerns, strategic initiatives, you know, are things shifting?
And so it's a way, like these are, you know, they're on the front line, and they're having different conversations with key decision-makers and leaders within our target accounts. And so it's amazing to have that feedback loop from... it's a little bit unique perspective from an account executive.
So, using that to learn, how do we win, how do we do, you know, are there new ways for us, blind spots, objections, value propositions, you know, anything that can help inform us to, you know, reverse engineer closed one, or a really solid, impactful conversation that guarantees us the follow-up, you know, any of those things. So it's highly educational, and it informs my entire program, as well as how I help in my enablement with the DSAs as well.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – And out of curiosity, do you get any pushback from these subject matter experts? Do they say, 'Oh, I'm terribly busy... ...couldn't possibly' or are they absolutely delighted to be part of that kind of whole process?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – No! Our subject matter experts – shout out to Erik Gaston and Tim Morris – I'm always on their calendar, and they're so generous. They're saints, they're so generous with their time, and they're happy to help, you know? Like, they want to help Sales win, they want to help Tanium win. And we're aligned, because a lot of what they're doing and trying to accomplish is very much aligned with also what I'm trying to do and accomplish within the accounts, but also with our Sales team, and so they're very generous, so I.. not yet! Not kind of, what I hope – I hope they never give me any pushback with their time!
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I mean, if you get more and more successful, because obviously you're running a great program there, and obviously you will probably end up, well, we'll see. I'm sure you'll have it all figured, and you'll work out what to do.
Question actually about, you've talked about subject matter experts, but that's one group that you are leaning on very heavily, but also you are leaning very heavily on Sales, clearly.
As we know, ABM isn't ABM without your Sales colleagues helping you to be successful. Could you give a couple of tips to the audience on how you've achieved that kind of alignment with your colleagues in Sales?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Sure, so I'm going to say some of the things that you probably hear on every episode of 'Let's talk ABM' and that's, you know, I think the biggest thing is, you know, earning their trust, and getting, trying to get a few wins under your belt. Did it have like the social proof? You know, there hasn't been a Sales organization that I've ever worked with that didn't find a lot of power in the anecdotal success stories.
So I think that's huge, whether you're like within the current organization, or from past organizations, bringing that knowledge and expertise in trying to build trust with the Sales org with your expertise that you know how to help them win.
And I think the other thing is how you show up is important. You know, are you helping them work more efficiently? Are you helping, you know, you're not wasting their time. Hopefully every time that you're showing up to a meeting, you're providing value, and it's an efficient use of their time. And then I think the most important part is to be curious. And what do I mean by that is staying curious with them, asking, you know, questions about their account, questions about their meetings, like what they're going through. But also more importantly is, as you have these meetings across multiple teams, account executives, you know, our subject-matter experts, I think being able to be curious, make observations, and have hypotheses, right? Of like this is what I'm seeing.
We're... there's... for example, like maybe there's a theme of, Hey! We're not getting the follow-up because, hey! We've lost these deals – these opportunities have all close-failed because – or, Hey! This is where I've seen, you know, this messaging or this value proposition is really landing very well. Have you tried to leverage this? Or, Hey! Who do we know in this account? Where are you struggling? Have you tried building out your – I call them hit lists, you know, it's a list of prospects for an account. Have you tried going into LinkedIn Sales Navigator? Have you used these tools in this way to identify these people?
Just getting curious and finding ways to provide value, and it's in the little things, it's in the big things. But I think that when you're curious and you're asking them, and then you can be a creative problem-solver of, Hey! Like maybe there's a roadblock? Maybe there's an objective, and as an account-based manager, you're exposed to so many conversations across these accounts. How do you help distribute that information in a valuable way? And how do you enable the Sales team to just work more effectively?
So I think that curiosity, if you're asking those questions, and you can extract, you know, like the nuggets of knowledge, the anecdotes, the themes, and then create ways to solve for those problems, and then help the DSAs solve for those problems, or de-risk their deals, or help them get multi-threaded – just be more effective and have more success in all the moments of their, you know, in their prospecting and in their pursuit.
It's a very long-winded answer, but I find that that's been the best way to build rapport, and build trust, and to actually get the account executives to adopt, you know, more of your tactical plays, especially in the One-to-one fashion, really having them bring you into the account.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I think there's so much to unpick there. And I think the couple of things that I loved was, you mentioned about social proof, you mentioned about having a couple of wins under your belt, you mentioned with the power of anecdotes, and I hear that a lot, that sharing those anecdotes of, Hey! This is what we did, this is what happened, this is the result. Sometimes the story is more compelling than even kind of sharing numbers.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Yes.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – So telling that story – and people love a good story. And, you know, us marketers were meant to be good storytellers, we should be good storytellers. So I think those kind of what I kind of call war stories: What happened and, you know, how did it come about? And what was the end result, and what did they say? Those are really compelling stories.
And I think also the thing that you finished on there about being curious; I think that is so important, and I think that showing value and also, as you said, the little things, it's very often not the large initiatives, but it's the little things that show that you care, and show that you're actually helping them. And as I always say, you know, sometimes I used to be Head of Sales as well, and you know, people would always say, 'Oh God! Marketing! Not another bloody marketing presentation' or something. So, you know, whenever they hear the word marketing, they normally kind of shut down and shut off, and, you know, so you have to kind of talk to them on their level, and I think what you just said is a great way of doing that.
Talking of great things that you said, Lindsay, one thing that you said that I wrote down from our chat prior to this recording was you said – and I've never heard this expression before – you said 'Know your forest before you focus on the trees.'
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Yes.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Tell me a little bit, because you've got some wonderful, wonderful expressions, but tell me a little bit about that expression, and what's the context of that?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Yeah, I think, you know, like I said before, I'm kind of like a big-picture thinker. And so for me, I think maybe that's just the way that I need to process information. Like I need to see the whole force, like, show me the big picture – what are we trying to accomplish here? And you know, whether that's like with an account, or with, you know, ABM as a whole, or how Tanium wins as a whole, what Tanium needs to do to grow, or to win, to expand.
And so the forest for me is really understanding the landscape of, you know, in this context of ABM. So it's like, what is the landscape of... what are we offering? You know, what are the true pillars? What is the higher, high-level value proposition, the pillars of Tanium? And really understanding that. But then how do we win? What exactly... ? Why do people buy? Why do people take a meeting? Why do people take the first meeting? And why do they give you a follow-up meeting? How are... ? What are all of these things?
And so for me it's like, I get very curious about this, and then it's like, I need to like map out my whole forest versus, you know, the trees of the forest might be like, oh, a direct-mail campaign or a lead-generation campaign, or, Oh! This digital advertising. And all of these little details don't matter, right? Every little tree doesn't matter unless you really understand the landscape of your entire forest.
Because I think if you understand the landscape of the whole forest, then you know which trees to chop down. I'm not sure how to continue this analogy, but then it's like, then you know which path to take to, you know, to win. And so I think if you're creating a campaign that's completely detached from why people take a meeting, how successful will that campaign be? So I feel like the forest is really how you navigate, you know, the maze of the trees, and knowing where to spend your time, and where to spend your money, and your effort, so.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Well, I mean, I love that, and it goes back to what you said at the beginning, and the things about what do they need ABM to solve? How does Tanium grow? How do Sales win? How can I help them win? And I think, as you said, knowing that kind of bigger picture first, before getting into the kind of the nitty gritty, and the details, and the minutiae of everything, I suppose, is really important.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – I'll say...
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – So, go ahead.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Sorry, just to continue on with that, I think ABM, a lot of times can be a fairly like anemic team, you know, we're trying to do, especially considering all the things that you have to do. 'Cause you know, ABM as a service is really facilitating an account executive to do all of the right things for an account to give them their best shot at closing a deal, right? And so we have to be efficient.
And so it's easy to go down the path of more is more, you know, the flash and the bang, and, you know, like campaign, or you know, play to play to play, and none of it really fits into the bigger picture. And so that's why I think it's really important to, like, what is your north star? And ultimately I think the north star of an ABM program is how do you – how do we win? How do we replicate wins? How do we make wins more efficient? And you know, and then I think from there there's a few pillars of what goes into that.
But I think, especially knowing the nature of a lot of ABM managers where it's a lot of work, it's a very heavy lift, it's a heavy lift for the ABM manager, it's a heavy lift for Sales, it's a heavy lift for the cross-functional teams that support. And so let's not waste our time on things that don't fit, you know, that really ultimately don't make sense if we're thinking truly strategically and smarter about what we're trying to accomplish.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Great point, Lindsay. I talk a lot myself about 'north star' as well, and making sure that every ABM program has a very clear north star that is clear to the business as well. And I think you've hit the nail on the head.
Let's finish off with some rapid-fire questions for you.
As I mentioned at the top of the show, you've been around doing ABM for some time now, so you're, you've been there, you've done the, you know, you've got the T-shirt, you've got dirt under your nails, as I kind of say, that you've been there and had all the experiences. So what would you say is your greatest ABM learning? What have you learned on this journey that you've been on?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – I think... I don't know, there's so many. Which do I choose? I think asking for help is maybe something that I personally struggle with. And so asking for help earlier.
And it's just so ironic, 'cause I love helping others, I love helping others win, that's why I do what I do, and others are eager to help you win, as well. And so I think: Don't be scared to ask for help, and to collaborate. And so I think that's probably – and that help, whether it's going to, you know, Sales leadership and saying, 'Hey! I'm struggling with this,' or you know, 'This is a bit of a bottleneck.' You know, 'How can I serve your team better to, maybe I need to eliminate this bottleneck, or this point of friction?'
Or, you know, cross-functional teams – you know, 'Maybe there's synergies to really kind of help you accomplish more without it all being on your shoulders?' So I would say ask for help.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Very, very, very good advice there. And in terms of, what would you say is the hardest part that you've found of doing ABM?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – I think the hardest part is driving adoption of all of the services that ABM has to offer. That's been... and I think that's, you know, in my entire history from Field Marketing to ABM, I would say that that's always the hardest is how do you drive ABM adoption, like true ABM adoption.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Yeah, I'd agree on that one. And going back to the top of the show, when you talked about ABM versus random acts of marketing, what would you say is the greatest misconception that you found out there about ABM when you tell people that you do ABM, or you talk to other colleagues about Account-based Marketing?
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – That people think Random Acts of Marketing is ABM. I feel like a little bit of an ABM snob, because, you know, I feel like ABM can be as much of a philosophy in every company that adopts ABM is a little bit different in philosophy and approach.
I think a huge misconception that is, unfortunately, I think it's kind of proliferated in a lot of the ABM conferences, is that it's really glorified lead generation. My snob's coming out now, Declan, I'm sorry. But, that we put together a really cool direct-mail campaign – and that's a presentation in an ABM conference of an ABM strategy. And I would hesitate to even call that a campaign! That might be a play. Is it ABM or not?
I feel like there could be a podcast of ABM or RAM, you know, and it's like people could phone in and say, 'Hey! I have this idea for a campaign and, you know, is this true ABM, or is it random acts of marketing?' Right? So it's like ABM or not? And so, it's like, I think that we have to challenge, our organizations need to challenge themselves if they're truly going to adopt or deploy ABM is to elevate it beyond lead generation, elevate it beyond random acts of marketing.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – Last question, I'll touch on at the end, but last question for you, just it might tie into what you're say now, but what would you say has been your, alright, let me put this another way: Let's imagine that a colleague calls you and says: "Hey Lindsay, you won't believe this, but I've been asked to present an ABM strategy to the C-suite, to the CEO," whatever – and they say to you: "What on Earth should I definitely make sure that I include? What on Earth should I definitely make sure that I say?" What would be that one thing you say to them? Make sure you say...
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – I would say make sure that you know and can express how your organization wins, and how your program is completely aligned to how to get Sales to win.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – I think that's a very simple answer, very succinct answer.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – I could, I could honestly, you know, like go into more detail, but I think, you know, if someone's calling me very quickly, it's like, if you don't know how you win, you don't have a program. Or you're not ready.
And so certainly if you're going in front of the C-suite, you know, hopefully they know how the organization wins. But I think that's the crux of an ABM program. You don't have that, you don't have a program.
Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) – I love that, I think that's a wonderful way to end this episode.
Lindsay, thank you so much for sharing your ABM journey with us today. And I wish you and the team there at Tanium every success for the future. Thank you.
Lindsay Baggett (Tanium) – Thank you so much. It's been fun.