ABM: Beyond the Campaign

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - So today I'm joined by Nancy Harlan. Nancy, thanks so much for joining us today.

Nancy Harlan - Sure. Nice to be here. Thank you so much for the invitation.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Not at all. Well, let's give everyone a little bit of an intro to yourself. Nancy, many of you might recognize the name. 

I actually interviewed Nancy back in August, 2021 on Episode 29. I had to look it up actually. Really? Episode 29 of Let's Talk ABM. So that's almost four years ago that we first met and we first spoke. And that was when you were at Qlik, I think you were Head of ABM at Qlik.

Nancy Harlan - Yes. 

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And since then, you then moved on to UiPath to head up their global ABM program. And if we go back in time before UiPath and before Qlik, you were Director of Global Demand Center over at Siemens Enterprise Communications. And then I also was surprised when I was looking on your LinkedIn profile the other day, you were even doing sales at IBM when you first started off.

Nancy Harlan - Started in Sales. So, you know, sales and sales management for IBM. And it really is the, the quintessential, I think, great place to start when you eventually become an Account-based marketer. 'cause you really understand the sales cycle. 

You understand, and have the confidence to be with customers. So I love the fact that I started in sales. I would never not have done that to get to this ultimate point. And when I hire ABMers, I like when they have a sales background as well. I just feel like it just brings their confidence in their knowledge of the sales cycle to a great point.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. I think I'd concur you with you there, really. And also it is interesting. I've interviewed a lot of people who've either been through that kind of IBM school or I've done a couple of 'Let's talk's recently with a couple of your ex-colleagues at IBM as well. And it's a real, you know, as I said, a school for learning. Great Sales, great Account Management, great ABM. 

So, and as you said, I think sales set you up for many things actually. I used to be in sales as well, like yourself, and I used to, you know, have to earn my crust selling. And, you know, you had your good days and your bad days. But you know, you learned a lot from it, really. And I think it makes me a better marketer, I would say. And I think you'd probably echo that as well, wouldn't you?

Nancy Harlan - I completely agree. I think the best marketers come from sales. And again, the best Account-based marketers come from sales. But I also think it's helping me now that I'm back in this space where I am, you know, packaging up my expertise and then, and doing fractional engagements. I have to go out there and sell myself. And so I have those skills, which is, it's great.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. So just to to finish off on that. So Nancy, having gone through that stellar corporate career through IBM, Siemens, Qlik and UiPath, is now a Fractional ABM Leader and a consultant for many leading companies. So please do look her up. And if you need some help, she's a great ABMer and I'm sure she'll do a great job for you. 

So I think this episode's gonna be a little bit different. 'cause obviously most guests I talk to, obviously we talk about their ABM program, we talk about what they're doing, we talk about where they've been on their ABM journey, we talk about what their experiences have been with their current company, et cetera…

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - …And what their plans are. But I think when we were having a chat previously, we kind of came up with a few ideas about how we'd approach this a bit differently. 

So I think for the, for the audience, I think what we're going to do is talk about three things. The one. Firstly we're gonna kick off on, we're gonna talk about ABM. And I think the way you coined it was ABM as a strategic priority in these rather uncertain economic times. 

Then we're gonna talk about something which is close to your heart, which you've been talking a lot about on LinkedIn at the moment, which is about the myths and misconceptions of ABM, which I write a lot about as well. So we're, we actually

Nancy Harlan - We're both very passionate about what it is and what it isn't.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. And then I think we'll then finally finish off with something which is also very close to my heart, actually, which is ABM through the customer lifecycle, which I think is something that people need to know a lot more about, rather than thinking about it as the first click, as the kind of winning new logos. But it's actually for the full lifecycle. So going back to the first theme, which is ABM, as a strategic priority in these uncertain economic times. Sounds like a film actually that title.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah, it does. An epic.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Might not fit on the billboard in Times Square, but we'd have to shorten it. And the translation I think would be quite difficult as well. But obviously the last few months have been, you know,

Nancy Harlan - Interesting.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Thank you. You, as you're an American, you can say that. Have been in interesting times. 

But also I think behind that kind of 'interesting times', there is that kind of, you know, uncertainty in the market. There have been layoffs, there have been, you know, people restructuring their companies. There's been lots of movements. People… we've definitely seen that people are taking somewhat longer to make decisions, asking more questions, which is rightly so. But let's just talk about that. 

So in these, in this economic climate that we're living in, we're now in the month- well, we're recording this at the end of May…

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - …2025. So why should ABM, or some people call it Strategic Account Marketing, why do you think some people should be thinking about this as a priority for CROs and CMOs?

Nancy Harlan - So I go back to the Pareto principle, right? The 80:20 rule. When things get a little bit discombobulated, if you want. Uncertain. I think companies should instantly go back to "What are we doing to protect, engage, grow our top 20%?" Because that rule, it sits true, you know, whether it was 20 years ago or, or today. 

You know, most companies, 80% of their revenue comes from 20% of their customers. And so what are you doing? How can Strategic Account Marketing really help you, you know, circle the wagons around that 20% to make sure that you're guaranteeing that revenue growth in that, that important set of customers? 

So that's like, that's the first thing I would be like ‘CRO, CMO, what's your, what are you doing for that top 20%?’ And how can and should Strategic Account Marketing One-to-one ABM be part of that? And I think yes.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Love that. I love that. And anybody who mentions Pareto, I love it when anybody mentions... It's funny, people, you know, mentioning a 19th century Italian economist.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - But I love that story.

Nancy Harlan - I learned this morning that it rhymes with potato. So that's what I learned. So it's 'Pa-RAY-to'

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm)- 'Pa-RAY-to'?

Nancy Harlan - Is my understanding. Well, there you go. Well, hopefully Italian listeners will correct us on that one.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Tomato, tomato.

Nancy Harlan - I apologize in advance if I've offended

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - No, no, no. No offense. But also you could argue, you know, with what they say about, you know, North American English and British English, right. Two countries, divided by the same language. Right?

Nancy Harlan - Right, right.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Tomato, tomato, potato.

Nancy Harlan - No kidding. No kidding.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Right. And I love that about the top 20% and One-to-one. 

Okay, and then in terms of the kind of, I mentioned it a little bit earlier actually. You know a lot of, although ABM started as a customer growth, customer advocacy, customer penetration strategy, it kind of morphed particularly over the last few years into, well, let's use it for new local acquisition. 

But going back to your point about these uncertain times. How do you think ABM helps companies make that shift from perhaps thinking about net-new, which is where a lot of companies have been thinking about ABM. Into that more kind of, I think you might have coined it as 'deeper share of wallet'?

Nancy Harlan - Yep. Those are the words. It is looking at the customer holistically, right? And really defining; what is your Ideal Customer Profile? 

So that ICP a lot of people talk about, it really comes down to if this is the right customer, you know, why is it the right customer? And part of that has to be that we've gotten some revenue, but we see an opportunity to significantly grow the revenue out of that customer.

So for me, ABM in this 80:20 role, world, it's; think of it as that revenue multiplier. How do we make sure that we're grabbing as much as we can from these customers to make sure that we're protecting them in this important time, but we're also expanding. 

So that's, I call it the revenue multiplier, ABM in that world.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Revenue multiplier. And going back to how people should approach ABM when thinking about, you know, their customers in particular, when they're looking to kind of, you know, particularly in, you know, uncertain times, retain revenue. You know, one thing is obviously saying "Hey let's get some more revenue". But I think a lot of people are a little bit nervous saying we need to retain revenue.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah, absolutely.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Right? We need to retain revenue, we need to retain our customers, we need to make sure that they stay with us. We need to then potentially do our best, as you pointed back to before, about the 80:20 to try to expand those customers that are probably less exposed to certain markets at the moment. 

What would be from an account, perhaps from an account selection point of view, how would you, if you were sitting down in your role as Fractional ABM CMO, how would you say to people, ‘let's look at your customers and let's work out which ones perhaps are less exposed or more open to expansion?

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. So it comes down to, you know, again, defining that ICP. 

Seeing what that real perfect customer profile looks like, and then applying that, leveraging data to apply to your existing. But it also, don't forget, you have some of the greatest resources on account intelligence sitting in your Sales organization, in your Customer Success organization. 

So for me, when you start to think about how do we really make sure that we're building an ABM program that's not just focused on revenue retention, but also resilience and expansion, you know, bring Customer Success to the table. They need to be part of that swarm. 

And then I'll also say, one of the things that we did both at Qlik and UiPath is in this environment of really making sure we're building an ABM program that's going to drive resilience, retention, and expansion. Make sure you maybe even think about bringing the customer champion to the table, right? I mean, bringing that customer, because you can help them through an Account-based program internal to their organization, drive that awareness and demand to, drive up the use of this technology and expand the technology. 

So my advice is don't forget Customer Success in your swarm of resources and strategies, bringing into the account. They need to be part of it. But also don't forget about engaging the customer champion directly as well. They can be a great assist to you, but you can also be assisting them and making sure they're getting the ROI that they expect from the solution, and they're continuing to grow the deployment of that technology out within their enterprise. 

So those are my two pieces of advice, making sure that you've got CS involved and the customer champion where appropriate.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - No, I love that. And it's very rare to hear that, actually, to mention about the customer champion. And I think it reminds me of a conversation with your old colleague at UiPath, Laura Matthews, who worked with you very closely. And I think she talked about something very similar about the work that you were doing there actually with your customers and the road shows, I think you were running there.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah, we, we actually named that program, like it was an offering to our top 20% customers where you get an Account-based marketer to support you, Mr. Customer, to build an integrated, branded-in-your-brand program that drives awareness and demand. 

And the position with the customer is, we're gonna ensure you get the ROI you expect, but we're gonna actually accelerate that. And for us, right, for Sales and CS, we're getting into new areas of the business and we're getting an opportunity to grow. So it's a great solution. Again, that 80:20 rule is great. You know, where, if you got the right champion, you gotta have the right champion. But yeah, Laura's an expert as well.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - I love that, Nancy. And also the term you used about swarm, I thought that was an interesting term of phrase, really. It's very, very graphic.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. Yeah. There, I think there's been times in my history, I actually had the beehive in the middle, and that's the customer and all the bees that are, they're buzzing around, right? It is a swarm because what you're doing is you're not just investing marketing resources in these customers. You're investing, you have the right seller, right? You have the right Customer Success person, you have the right Technical Support people. You, you're really bringing the best of your company to these customers. And so I call it the swarm. Let's get around them. Let's support them. Let's engage them. Let's be sure that we're aligned to what they're trying to accomplish, while at the same time, making sure we're growing that revenue and protecting the revenue stream as well.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Love that. Swarm ABM.

Nancy Harlan - Swarm. Yeah. There you go.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Could be a new term could be a new term that might go viral.

You mentioned there about kind of ROI. You know, when times are difficult. Everyone kind of, puts their hands in their pockets and obviously keeps their hands in the pockets. But how do you talk to your customers or whether you, of your previous experience of how you're talking to your customers now, how'd you talk to them about how you can reflect the measurement and the return? What do you, because obviously with everything, it takes time. So what are you saying to people about measuring the work of ABM?

Nancy Harlan - Yeah, It's such an interesting discussion around measurement. It's probably one of the things that I spend most of my time with my Chief Marketing Officers and my leaders. 

Because ABM costs money, right? I mean, it costs resources and it costs budget dollars. So you're constantly, internally having to justify it. So besides like the account engagement levels, you. 

And importantly, let me talk about it, OK, you need to measure net-new people. Are you getting to new people, new divisions, new departments, new individuals within the account? So you're gonna look at those net-new responders. You're gonna look really important. Looking at net-new executive relationships you've established. New buying committee people.

You also wanna look at high value activities. That's the term I use for it. And those high value activities are, if you're doing all of this highly customized marketing into it, are these customers spending more time on your website? High value. If you see people swarming over to the website, that's that they're interested, they wanna learn more. Are they spending a lot of time on the account portal? Are are they going to your customer conference? Right? I mean, are we getting them there? Is it enough? Are we doing the right things that this customer wants to spend money and actually go to the conference? Are they using your learning portal? Are more people from the account actually going and learning how to use your product? 
So that's one thing. Those account engagement levels is something that I'm constantly measuring. The other thing is progression through the buying journey. You wanna make sure you know that you're really on top of whether they're going through the buying journey? Are they stuck somewhere? What are you doing to get them unstuck? So really focused on where they are in that process and how you are engaging in that process. 

And then always, always, always, and I've said this before, and I probably said it to you four years ago Dec, was, you know, I measure ABM through revenue, right? I know Salespeople don't like me to say this, but I have a quota, right? An ABMer has a quota. We need to look at what's in the pipeline at the beginning of the year and how are we gonna grow that exponentially over the year? So I hold a quota. If it was a million dollars, then I need to bring in $3 million in revenue by the end of the year from this set of accounts. Just using those numbers. But it's, you know, that year-over-year revenue growth. So I constantly measure revenue. How are we helping these accounts grow? And that's really, you know, the biggest thing is revenue growth.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And that, I suppose for a lot of people, that'd be, well, for business leaders, that'd be music to their ears to hear that Marketing want to own a revenue number.

Nancy Harlan - Ah, and like, that's why there's been times that I've actually worked more closely with the CRO than the CMO because the CRO we're talking the same language, right? And we're aligned to where they see the greatest opportunity and we're helping them get there, plus get bigger. And that's why, you know, ABM, again, that intersection of Sales and Marketing is so keenly important.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - No, I love that. And I think the points you make around all those metrics around account engagement are really, useful for the audience. I think the point around-

Nancy Harlan - It's kind of like you're seeing the energy you're creating in the account, right? You're seeing that energy. And that's super important because that's an indicator that you're gonna buy, and they're gonna buy more.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. Yeah, I would agree. And then obviously the point around the buying journey and the point about the revenue, I think that's great. Great points for measurement. Let's change tack now.

Nancy Harlan - Sure.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - We've talked about the uncertain economic times and who knows what the… we're in May. So let's see how the rest of 2025, fingers crossed, let's hope we're still here in…

Nancy Harlan - Oh, please.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - …May 2026. Let's talk. You've been, you've been writing a series on LinkedIn and we talked about when we were prepping for this interview and talking a little bit, but you've been writing a piece around or various pieces around the five myths of ABM.

Nancy Harlan - Yes.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And tell us, what they are. And perhaps walk us through one or two of these myths. Let us know what's your thinking there?

Nancy Harlan - You froze on me. Oh, there you are.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. So you, that series, let's just, we'll just redo that again. So Nancy, the five myths that you've been writing about of ABM, tell us what they are, walk us through perhaps one or two of them and explain what the reality looks like to you. 

Nancy Harlan - Sure. So there are five and, and these are the ones that, that kind of get my 'American Irish' up, if you will. Right? So there, I'm passionate about these things. 

So here's the five, I will just list them out. Myth one, ABM replaces Demand Gen. Myth two, ABM is just a marketing thing. Myth three, ABM is only for big companies. Myth four, ABM is a one-time campaign. And Myth five ABM is just personalized advertising. 

So those are the five myths. And I'll, drill down on Myth one and Myth four for you because they, again, make me most passionate about the topic. 

So 'ABM replaces Demand'. It does not, ABM compliments Demand Gen. You're going to hear a lot of terms out in the market called One-to-many ABM or ABX or Programmatic ABM. That for me is just leveraging great marketing technologies to do really, really targeted great marketing. That's Demand, right? When you say One-to-many, that's casting a wide net. And you may have a target list in that environment, but when you're talking about thousands of accounts, that's one, you know, that's just Demand. It's that wide net. So ABM is different. ABM focuses on the high value accounts with personalized strategies, you know, unique content, unique messaging, unique Value Prop, personalized events and campaigns and, executive briefings, all the things that come together. So ABM doesn't replace Demand Gen, ABM compliments Demand Gen. Without that strong Demand Gen engine, you're not gonna be able to layer over that strategic ABM. So, you know, kudos to my Demand Gen partners, they're amazing. Couldn't do what they do but need them in order for me to be successful as an ABMer. So that's Myth number one. 

Myth number four is the other one that kind of gets my passion up. 'ABM is a one-time campaign'. I have customers in this consulting world that I'm in now, come to me and said, we need you to build an ABM campaign for us, Nancy. And I have to stop and say let's step back and really talk about what Account-based Marketing is. You know, if you want a really engaging, integrated creative campaign, that's one thing. But ABM is not something you launch in Q2 and forget about in Q3. It's not a single push to get a meeting. It's not a flashy ad. It's a mindset. It's a discipline, it's a strategy. It's a go-to-market strategy. So it's not a campaign. Are campaigns a part of it? Yeah! Yeah. But first it's a strategy. So those are the, the two myths that kind of get me excited, as you can tell.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - No, yeah, definitely. I think to add to that point you mentioned about the Irish connection there, I like to say that, I like to have that kind of image in my head of a pint of Guinness. And

Nancy Harlan- I love this analogy. I love it.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. I know it just came to me one day, obviously, you know, Irish heritage, you know, we all spend too much time in bars and a pint of Guinness, obviously, you've got what we call the black stuff.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And that's the majority. And then on top you've got the white head, the cream.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And they both compliment each other. And one without the other? If you just drink the black stuff, it tastes bloody awful. And obviously if you just take, drink the cream, it's you know, there isn't much there. So if you have the two together, then obviously, that creates a great pint of Guinness. And it gives you a very satisfying taste. 

And I think that's whenever I, with the agency where I'm the CMO, whenever we talk to potential customers and we ask them the question, you know, "what are you doing? What does your marketing look like?" Et cetera. When they say that ABM is going be one of their main elements or the main element and everything else, they haven't got very much running. That's always an alarm bell for us.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. Yeah. It's a time to step back and really start to educate and, and that's what I've been doing a lot of these days, is really educating on that. So, yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. Well, education also, we, you know, very often we push back to people and say, we don't think that ABM... you shouldn't be talking to an ABM agency. You should be trying to figure out your basic approach to go-to-market and your basic Demand Gen, Product Marketing Brand Marketing.

Nancy Harlan - Completely. Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Event strategy, et cetera. Because the most successful ABM programs are when there is, everything else is in place.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. The greatest thing is, for us, right, is ABM is such a hot topic, right? It's, everybody's talking about ABM. I love that. But that also causes a tremendous amount of confusion. And, and we really need to, as Account-based Marketing experts, really help define and align people around what it can and can't do.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. I mean, we're doing our best. I mean, sometimes it's an uphill struggle, but we are doing our best. But also, I think, just to add to that point where you just said, if everything else is in place, that means that ABM has some space to breathe. And you just mentioned about it takes time, it's expensive, it can be expensive, but you've gotta let it breathe. You've gotta let it have some space. And otherwise, if there's too much pressure on ABM, the ABM team or the ABM strategy from day one, it's gonna be an uphill struggle, right?

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. ABM, true ABM, takes time. It's not a campaign, it's not short term, it's a strategy. Right? We keep coming back to that term. It's a strategy. It's the way you're going to go to market leveraging an Account-based mMrketing strategy. Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Well, as you said, Nancy, it's a mindset, it's a discipline, it's a strategy. It's a go-to-market.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - As you quite eloquently put there. Now, in terms of those five that you mentioned, which one, if I have to put you on the spot.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Which one do you think is causing the most confusion or the most damage inside of organizations that are trying to run an ABM program?

Nancy Harlan - It's Number two, right? So 'it's a marketing thing'. It's not, right?

Like we just said, it's not just a marketing thing. It is a go-to market strategy, right? It is, it has to include Sales, it has to include Customer Success and Marketing. It has to have alignment at the executive level within your organization that this is what we are going to do. 

So I say, you know, the thing, how does this myth persist, right? How does it keep going? And I think it's because of the 'M' in ABM, right? And I talk about this a lot these days, and I think we need to rename it. So that it's about, you know, Account-based Go-to-market, so AB-GTM or, or Strategic Account Revenue Acceleration; SARA. I don't know, right? Whatever. But I think the 'M' in Account-based Marketing gets people to think it's just a marketing thing and it's not. It's just not.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Yeah. So, I mean, it's interesting. I mean, I'm on the side of not changing it, because I think, as you said before, it's our job to help people understand it. 

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. 

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - There are many companies, as you know, who've changed it to ABX, ABE, Strategic Account Management, as you said. There's a whole... and I always say to people, look, if you wanna call it something different, that's fine. The most important thing is that you define what it means to you, right?

Nancy Harlan - Yes.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Define it, what does it mean? If you wanna call it something, if you wanna call it you know, stripy yellow pajamas, that's fine. Do that. But just for God's sake, make sure that everyone understands what it is. And I think that's the issue. As long as you can define it and everyone's on the same page and they're all aligned,

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Then you're gonna do well. And, and let's ask you one more question around the myths. Yeah. With these, with these myths, how do these myths impact perhaps the whole adoption and the alignment, particularly with Sales? Maybe you've answered it already with the fact that if you have 'Marketing' in the title. But getting that alignment with Sales, what, what's been your experience of walking into a room with a whole bunch of Salespeople and they look at you and think, oh God, not another marketing presentation.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. Happened many times, right? I think from, again, the uneducated seller or Sales organization, again, I agree with you, it's our jobs to educate. They're thinking it's leads, right? Sales are thinking that you're gonna, give them some leads and you're gonna create these leads. You're gonna throw it over the fence to them. And that's just not what it is.

It is, again, you know, we're banging this drum. It is this strategy, and we have to change the perception with Sales. You know, I like to say it's a team sport, right? And many times when we're selecting accounts to really invest in, one of the things I will raise a flag to a Sales leadership is I don't think that seller is bought in. And unless I have my seller bought in, I'm not gonna be successful as an Account-based marketer. 

So, you know, really it's about making sure that it is a true team sport, that we're aligning the swarm right around those accounts, and we're focused on it for a period of time. It's not a 6 month, it's not a 12 month. It's that this is the right account and we're gonna invest over time to make sure we're driving that share of wallet. So, yeah, I guess that that's what I would say there.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - I love that. A couple of questions on that, actually. Let's just role play this for the audience. Okay? 

So you walk into a room full of hard-nosed Salespeople, of which you've probably had lots of experience with this, and they've all been called, and they've been told by their boss, they've got to attend. And they're sitting there thinking they should be out selling or whatever. How do you, and you've got a slide on the screen in front of you or whatever. How in less than a minute or 30 seconds, do you actually tell them what on earth ABM is?

Nancy Harlan - So I tell them that it is a strategy to help them be successful, right? So I talk about how we're gonna help them be successful, and it, again, as part of that process, I do really hit on, Dec, that ABM's gonna be more work for them. It just is, right? They have a new team member that's gonna support them. There's gonna be things that we need them to do, things that we need them to chase, things that we need their review on. But the focus is just as any good marketer is when you walk in that room, you're gonna tell them that we're here truly to help you with this customer, and we're going to give you the resources needed to drive awareness and demand in this customer, speak that customer's language, help you get into new areas of the business that you haven't been successful in. That's what our focus is gonna be. 

And you can see in most cases, there's a whole lot of people that get super excited. You know, my slide number two in that world is an example, right? I'll say, this is what we did for this customer over 18 months, and this is how we grew the deal from a million dollars to $20 million was, you know, with the Sales team. And a lot of them get, "Ooh, this is so exciting!" 

But when it comes to execution, they're not there. And they don't realize that they've gotta step up and be part of the engaging, the ABMer as part of the team. So, you know, again, I think, and there have been accounts that have fallen out of my program that should not have fallen out, but they fall out only for one reason. And that's because we cannot get the seller to engage and spend the time with us and make us part of the team. And that's a shame for them. We try and try, but eventually we just have to walk away. It's not gonna work unless they're inviting us and participating.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - That's incredible. That actual accounts can actually fall out of your program because the seller… Just doesn't buy in, right?

Nancy Harlan - Absolutely. Yeah. Again, that whole team sport concept, right? If you're not gonna participate, we're not gonna be successful. We can run all the integrated campaigns and events and engagement plans and VIP experiences, but if you're not participating. They're not gonna hit the mark. And, and there's not gonna be any energy created without the seller.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And Nancy, a question. What, you know, you've probably got something in your mind, but what's been that one thing that a Salesperson or a CRO or one of the kind of senior people have said to you that has really made you say “Wow, that's incredible. I'm so happy that we've actually made a difference.” What's. From a commercial point of view, can you remember something that somebody said to you?

Nancy Harlan - Yes. So it wasn't the CRO or the seller, it was the customer. 

So we had a Sales kickoff at UiPath, and the customer stood up on stage, didn't talk about me, talked about my ABMer, and how that ABMer helped her drive significant awareness within her organization of her strategic initiative around automation, right? Which is, you know, UiPath is focused on agentic automation. And I am an emotional, passionate person. And I'll tell you that I was sitting in the audience and I had no idea that this woman was gonna talk about the Account-based marketer and the Account-based marketers impact.

I had tears in my eyes because it's the culmination, right? It's the culmination of, ‘Look at how this works'. This works when you have a customer talking about it. It works. If you get the right alignment, if it is a strategy, if you've got the right accounts, if you've got the right resources and the right ABMers to engage, you can make a significant impact. And that was joyous to me. Absolutely joyous.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - No, that's beautiful. That's beautiful to hear. And let's move on to the last theme we're gonna talk about today. 

Nancy Harlan - Great. 

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Which is about the customer lifecycle. And obviously we mentioned at the top of the show, a lot of people have been thinking more about ABM as a net-new strategy, whereas obviously it's origins are actually within customer expansion, customer growth, cust customer advocacy, et cetera. But going back to that point around lifecycle, how do you see ABM extending beyond acquisition?

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Into the full cycle.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. So I think if, if you think about ABM as just getting the order, you're missing, you're leaving a lot of revenue opportunity on the table, right? 

That's where that partnership with Customer Success really can kick in. It shouldn't stop at the order, it should now continue to make sure, and we talked a little bit about this. It needs to continue to make sure that A, you're continuing to create awareness and demand in that account for particular use cases. If you landed in Finance, you know, what are you doing to educate and engage HR? What are you doing to educate and engage supply chain? Those things need to keep going because as Customer Success drives deployment of that original order, you are now making sure A, there's more opportunity being identified, but B, you're also helping educate and identify new champions within that business. You're helping educate the masses as to what the value prop is and get people to start raising their hand saying, I want this. I need this here and there. So, you know, it can't be that Account-based Marketing just stops at the order. If you do that, you're just missing out on the revenue that really ABM should be driving.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - No, I love that. I think that's a great quote for a t-shirt. ABM can't stop at the order. I love that. There you go. It's very catchy, you know? 

And what would you say some of the most effective strategies are then in those kind of different stages that go on past the conversion, so to speak? You know, there's typically in the kind of the infinity loop that a lot of people have seen.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. 

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - There's typically four or five stages that are going on. So what would we say are kind of the, some typical ABM strategies that you can deploy then?

Nancy Harlan - So whether you've got that great customer champion to work with or not. You're going to now transition from the seller being the leader of the band, if you will, right? The leader of the swarm, the King Bee, to the Customer Success person being that person. 
So now you're gonna transition as an ABMer into how are we warming and engaging the people who were originally targeted and why they bought the solution. So again, using that example. The customer bought the solution to support their Finance department. Great. We're gonna help the CS person get the Finance people top down, bottom up engaged and excited about what's coming. So you're gonna get them, into a room. You're gonna do some fun stuff with them. You're gonna, at the same time educate them as what's coming, what- start making them compete against each other as to best use cases they can build, right? 

So you're creating the energy and the engagement and the awareness in the 'land' department, but at the same time, you're going out and you're starting to talk to other areas of the business saying, "Hey, look what we're doing in Finance, look at the value we're delivering in your Finance department. Come learn about how we can do the same thing in HR, Supply Chain, you know, Legal, wherever."

So it really is about creating, you know, supporting the deployment, getting people happy, but it's also about the same time going out there and, and leveraging the success you're having in that 'land' to build more energy outside that land for that next renewal and the renewal after that.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - I love that. And I've just written down here a couple of things. There's a word that you keep on saying, which is very, I haven't heard it that much. And it's the word 'energy'. 

And you've talked, everyone hears about engagement, everyone hears about awareness, drive engagement, drive awareness. But I don't think I've heard anybody say, let's drive some energy. Well, let's create some energy. And I think that's quite novel.

Nancy Harlan - It is! And you can measure energy, right? Through a lot of the things that we talk about initially with the KPIs. You can measure net-new responders, you can measure time on the website, time at your customer conference. You can measure all that. That's a clear indicator of energy. 

But when you have a... if over a period of of eight months you have an ABMer that has created so much energy and engagement that you can have an event in a hotel with 500 people from this account with main stage and breakout rooms and lunch and cocktails. And if you can create that kind of energy with ABM, you're gonna drive wild successfulness because there, you can… it's palatable in a room when the customer, beyond that initial champion or that that IT group or the original 'land' department. When you can bring, because you've done such, you've created so much energy in the account that you've got people flying in to participate in a main event like its own customer conference. It's completely palatable. And I have seen that happen so many times. If you give us enough time, we'll get you there. To be able to really visually see the energy and have it result into the customer talking on a main stage about how amazing the program was to support their goals. It's super fun.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Love that, love that. And then the other thing you said, which I loved was, "Hey, look what we're doing with Finance. Come learn."

Nancy Harlan - Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - So that, that kind of education piece about learning, I think is for the whole, actually goes back, it goes back to my conversation with, with your old colleague Laura, about the fact that you, once you've done, you've gotta get the education right to go jumping across departments, right? So

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. Yeah. And you have to quantify results, right? You have to be able to tell the story to the new department about the value we're delivering in the first one. And so, as CS is building that value and quantifying that value, you're taking it from CS and you're building campaigns to go into other areas.

 There you go.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Love that. I love that. So Nancy, one more question around the customer lifecycle, and I think you hinted at it there, but in terms of the measurements, we talked earlier about other types of measurement, but is there anything different when you're looking at measuring retention, loyalty, advocacy? Is there anything that you kind of look to tick off?

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. So when you start to partner with Customer Success for your ABM program, after that initial 'land', you're gonna start to have on your dashboard more metrics that are aligned to product adoption rates, right? You're gonna focus on that. You're gonna start to look at renewal rates, you're gonna look at customer advocacy, right? Are these customers that you are investing in these resources? Are they actually giving that value back to you? Not just through revenue, which is super important, but, but through advocacy are, are they becoming your main speakers? Are they the ones that are, talking about your brand and your value outside in the market? So, so adoption rates, renewal rates, and advocacies. Those are the things that I'll start to look at after we've landed that big deal and we now are focused on the expansion.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Love that. Three, I think three very easy things for people to remember: Adoption rate, renewal rate, advocacy rate.

Nancy Harlan - Yep.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Let's just, let's just finish off at all. I like to ask all guests four rapid fire questions. I'm gonna ask you a quick question and I expect a quick answer.

Nancy Harlan - Okay. That's not one of my strengths, Dec.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Well we'll do our best. We'll do our best. I won't give you any negative points for long answers.

Nancy Harlan - Okay.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - What's been your greatest ABM learning?

Nancy Harlan - In the last 12 months, it's the power of AI. AI is going to close the loop for the last mile. It's not just about account selection and intent signals. AI and ABM now enables you to create the unique value prop message customization and real-time content packaging. It is gonna allow you to be in market with more accounts faster and cheaper. Amazing.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - I mean. We haven't, I kind of deliberately haven't spoken about AI 'cause we were talking about the three themes. 

But it's fascinating that you bring that up at the end of the show. And also I think the way you've actually explained it in terms of it's gonna close the loop, I think is a very eloquent way of putting it actually in terms of faster to market. And that's one of the, one of the things that perhaps has held ABM back is not getting quick enough to market, right?

Nancy Harlan - Yeah. I think every CMO I ever worked with, not CROs, CROs get it faster for some reason in my world. 

But the CMO was always saying, Nancy, you're too expensive. You're only focusing on a hundred accounts and you've got this number of people on your team and you need a million dollars in program, whatever it is, right? But it, what AI is gonna do for us is gonna allow us to keep that highly focused strategic you know, messaging and content and engagement and energy. But we're gonna be able to, and ABM is gonna, instead of having 12 accounts, they're gonna have 30 accounts because they're gonna be so much more efficient. And so, super excited about what I'm seeing in the market today about ABM and AI.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - That's great to hear. Let's move on. That was a short answer. Let's move on to the next question. What is the hardest part of ABM in your opinion?

Nancy Harlan - Okay, selecting accounts is hard. Measuring what really matters. But I'll say keeping the cross-functional alignment. Again, we've talked about this a thousand times now. Team sport! We have got to understand it is not a campaign. It's, you know, it is about keeping that executive cross-functional support to the program. If you can keep that, not for three months, not for, you know, a quarter or six months, then you're gonna really, really drive success. That's the hardest part, is making sure everybody stays on, onboard with the strategy and continues with that process.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Love that. And I think the next question I ask everybody, but I think we've already answered it in terms of the greatest misconception about ABM?

Nancy Harlan - It's not a campaign, it's not personalization, right? It's a strategy, it's a go to market strategy. Yeah.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And the last question obviously I ask everyone is that you get a phone call from an old friend from your IBM, Siemens, UiPath somewhere in the past.

Nancy Harlan - Yeah?

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - And they say to you, Nancy, I've gotta deliver a presentation on Monday morning to my CEO about an ABM strategy. And they say to you, 'Nancy, what's the, what's the one thing I mustn't forget to include?' What do you say to them is the one thing to include?

Nancy Harlan - Why. Why are you doing this? Right? It, you know. You can't talk about the technology, you can't talk about the accounts, you can't talk about the program structure. You have to deliver a really quantifiable answer to why do we wanna do this? So that's the thing. Answer those questions. Why are we gonna do this? You know, what is the impact we expect it to make? What problem are we trying to solve? What opportunity are we trying to capture?

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - That's a great way to finish off actually with the why. And I think people always think very often about the 'what' and the 'how'. They don't necessarily always answer the 'why'. 

Nancy, thanks so much once again, four years later, sharing your ABM wisdom with us and good luck with all your, the consultancy projects you're working on.

Nancy Harlan - Thank you.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - We'll be all following you and all your lovely posts. So I recommend everyone to connect with Nancy and to follow her amazing posts on LinkedIn. Nancy, thanks so much for joining us today.

Nancy Harlan - Thank you so much for the opportunity. Talk soon.

Declan Mulkeen (strategicabm) - Talk soon. Thanks.